Population substructure in Iberia, highest in the north-west territory (to appear in Nature)

A manuscript co-authored by Angel Carracedo, from the University of Santiago de Compostela, and (always according to him) pre-accepted in Nature, will offer more insight into the population substructure of Spain, based on autosomal DNA.

Carracedo’s lecture about DNA (in Galician), including his summary of the paper (from december 2017):

Some of the points made in the video:

  • The study shows a situation parallelling – as expected – the expansion of Spanish Medieval kingdoms during the Reconquista (and subsequent repopulation).
  • In it, the biggest surprise seems to be the greater substructure found in Galicia, the north-western Spanish territory – greater even than expected by the authors.
  • As a side note, Galicia shows a great influence from Moorish” ancestral components, due mainly to the influx from Portugal, which shows more.

It is difficult to judge only from the image and his words, but one could say that there are:

  • Certain quite old ancestral Galician groups;
    • then two – also quite old – ancestral Basque groups;
      • then more recent Galician groups;
        • and then a common, central Spanish group – including
          • a wider Asturian-Catalan group, with a western Asturian-Leonese, and an eastern Catalan subgroup;
          • and a central Castillian-Aragonese group, also with a western Castillian, and an eastern Aragonese subgroup.
spain-autosomal
Spain’s population substructure, from the video.

We thought that certain parts of the British Isles could show ancestral components related to the old population, although this has not proven exactly right, due to more recent population expansions.

However, this paper might shed light to the controversy surrounding Lusitanian (possibly Gallaico-Lusitanian) as a Pre-Celtic Indo-European group of Iberia, either slightly older as an Italo-Celtic dialect, or potentially from the Bell Beaker expansion, whose genetic imprint might have survived the Roman conquest, which apparently didn’t replace its ancestral population.

Given the presence of a central Spanish group opposed to the other minor groups – and knowing that (at least part of) the Medieval kingdoms should be related to the Occitan region – due to the Celtic expansion, and also potentially later during the Visigothic Kingdom, and the Carolingian Empire – , we can only guess that the other (north-western and Basque) groups are potentially quite old, and reflect prehistoric population structures.

Just speculating here, of course. Another interesting genetic paper to await…

Seen first in the Facebook group Iberia ADN.

Related:

19 thoughts on “Population substructure in Iberia, highest in the north-west territory (to appear in Nature)

  1. Are you following the news on Eurogenes?
    It seems that we have discovered a hidden big maritime migration from Anatolia_ChL to Southern Europe and North Africa, the same wave that was responsible for the Minoans in Greece.
    The Basques might have acquired large chucks of their CHG ancestry from this, just like the pre-IE groups of Iberia (Iberians, Turdetani, Tartessian, etc). This might explain why the Basques have “Steppe” without speaking IE: it’s not actually “Steppe”, but Anatolia_ChL.

    1. I follow Davidsky, he posts very interesting stuff, but I must have missed that, I don’t have much time for anything lately, sadly…. Maybe that’s in the comments? That part often becomes trolling hell on earth…

      I prefer to trust discoveries from peer-reviewed journals anyway, where experienced reviewers compel you to detail the potential drawbacks of any new results, and your interpretations of them. You cannot trust any other publication, we tend to overemphasize our a priori beliefs…

      For the moment, the simplest explanation is that the steppe component accompanied R1b-L23 lineages from Yamna.

      1. Yes, it’s in the comments, since the Sicilian post. We discovered that there’s already an Anatolia_ChL layer in the Sicilian Beakers.
        Such process might have happened in Iberia. I particularly think this is huge, because apart from the Minoans, no such thing is documented in Archaeological or Historical records, perhaps because it was a maritime expansion.

        1. Name,
          …. Wtf. I get dumbfounded, bedazzled with people.
          I would assume that you’ve, and all commenters at Eurogenes, ever saw a Map. So, when you look at a Map and have some knowledge in Holocene events, you see an Ocean (med), see a land on the northern shore of that ocean full of obstacles, mountains, rivers, etc, and see, on the other hand, a North Africa shore, a true Highway of people, special of pastoral and agriculture, the same North African chalcolithic period with a north Africa true pastoral and agriculture heaven… hence, for Anatolia Chalcolithic the conclusion is people moved via a maritime route? – Again, WTF!

  2. Are you following the news on Eurogenes?
    It seems that we have discovered a hidden big maritime migration from Anatolia_ChL to Southern Europe and North Africa, the same wave that was responsible for the Minoans in Greece.
    The Basques might have acquired large chucks of their CHG ancestry from this, just like the pre-IE groups of Iberia (Iberians, Turdetani, Tartessian, etc). This might explain why the Basques have “Steppe” without speaking IE: it’s not actually “Steppe”, but Anatolia_ChL.

    1. I follow Davidsky, he posts very interesting stuff, but I must have missed that, I don’t have much time for anything lately, sadly…. Maybe that’s in the comments? That part often becomes trolling hell on earth…

      I prefer to trust discoveries from peer-reviewed journals anyway, where experienced reviewers compel you to detail the potential drawbacks of any new results, and your interpretations of them. You cannot trust any other publication, we tend to overemphasize our a priori beliefs…

      For the moment, the simplest explanation is that the steppe component accompanied R1b-L23 lineages from Yamna.

      1. Yes, it’s in the comments, since the Sicilian post. We discovered that there’s already an Anatolia_ChL layer in the Sicilian Beakers.
        Such process might have happened in Iberia. I particularly think this is huge, because apart from the Minoans, no such thing is documented in Archaeological or Historical records, perhaps because it was a maritime expansion.

        1. Name,
          …. Wtf. I get dumbfounded, bedazzled with people.
          I would assume that you’ve, and all commenters at Eurogenes, ever saw a Map. So, when you look at a Map and have some knowledge in Holocene events, you see an Ocean (med), see a land on the northern shore of that ocean full of obstacles, mountains, rivers, etc, and see, on the other hand, a North Africa shore, a true Highway of people, special of pastoral and agriculture, the same North African chalcolithic period with a north Africa true pastoral and agriculture heaven… hence, for Anatolia Chalcolithic the conclusion is people moved via a maritime route? – Again, WTF!

              1. Name. Lets leave it at that.
                I am 10 grades and 5 levels above you. And truly have no patience to go back to kindergarden.
                go play…

              2. … and by the way. A guy that says “We” discovered (?) in a comments sections of a blog????

                And I am the loser? — Lol.
                go play with your toys son, Mom will call you for dinner.

  3. Carlos,
    “However, this paper might shed light to the controversy surrounding Lusitanian (possibly Gallaico-Lusitanian) as a Pre-Celtic Indo-European group of Iberia, either slightly older as an Italo-Celtic dialect, or potentially from the Bell Beaker expansion, whose genetic imprint might have survived the Roman conquest, which apparently didn’t replace its ancestral population.”
    Interesting. Can you elaborate a bit on how will be help?

    Whenever I said that Lusitanian was a reminiscence of the bell beakers and hence the “older” IE they spoke, I got eviscerated.
    If one looks carefully to sites of bell beakers in Portugal and moves forward 1000 years it will notice that the places match roughly with what Strabo later described as the Turduli. The ones at south (where later bell beakers established as we see eg in Perdigoes), the Turdili Bardili, the Turduli oppodani (Lisbon area, original bell beakers) turduli veteres (the ancient or veterans) near Porto where later bell beaker is seen.
    Strabo describes how the Turduli in the past had accepted the Celts arriving and moved together so much north as to pass beyond the Douro and up to Galiza. Then the romans manage to conquer up to Galiza.
    But I have always said the structure that supported Portugal and Galiza was defined by Turduli and those (like Lusitanian language) where different than the other Iberia.

  4. Carlos,
    And just for fun… wouldn’t be something if this ended up being correct…
    from Wiki.
    Origins – Often mentioned in the ancient sources as related to the powerful Turdetani people of Baetica (modern Andalusia), their exact ethnic affiliation remains obscure. However, recent linguistic studies of the few funerary inscriptions they left behind seem to demonstrate that the early Turduli spoke an Indo-European language of the Anatolian branch very similar to Mysian, though they later also included people of Celtic, Illyrian, and even Ligurian origin.[1] ”

    I have tried to talk to Joao Ferreira Amaral, author of research and the book that most talks about it . Will try futher.

    However – Linking Turdulli in western Iberia to Mysian in Anatolia, bridging Lusitanian and Mysian, two unclassified IE languages, in a moment that people are looking for origin of extra CHG in southern people, and some linking Anatolia_Chalc with that movement, it really lets your imagination run wild.

  5. Carlos,
    “However, this paper might shed light to the controversy surrounding Lusitanian (possibly Gallaico-Lusitanian) as a Pre-Celtic Indo-European group of Iberia, either slightly older as an Italo-Celtic dialect, or potentially from the Bell Beaker expansion, whose genetic imprint might have survived the Roman conquest, which apparently didn’t replace its ancestral population.”
    Interesting. Can you elaborate a bit on how will be help?

    Whenever I said that Lusitanian was a reminiscence of the bell beakers and hence the “older” IE they spoke, I got eviscerated.
    If one looks carefully to sites of bell beakers in Portugal and moves forward 1000 years it will notice that the places match roughly with what Strabo later described as the Turduli. The ones at south (where later bell beakers established as we see eg in Perdigoes), the Turdili Bardili, the Turduli oppodani (Lisbon area, original bell beakers) turduli veteres (the ancient or veterans) near Porto where later bell beaker is seen.
    Strabo describes how the Turduli in the past had accepted the Celts arriving and moved together so much north as to pass beyond the Douro and up to Galiza. Then the romans manage to conquer up to Galiza.
    But I have always said the structure that supported Portugal and Galiza was defined by Turduli and those (like Lusitanian language) where different than the other Iberia.

  6. Carlos,
    And just for fun… wouldn’t be something if this ended up being correct…
    from Wiki.
    Origins – Often mentioned in the ancient sources as related to the powerful Turdetani people of Baetica (modern Andalusia), their exact ethnic affiliation remains obscure. However, recent linguistic studies of the few funerary inscriptions they left behind seem to demonstrate that the early Turduli spoke an Indo-European language of the Anatolian branch very similar to Mysian, though they later also included people of Celtic, Illyrian, and even Ligurian origin.[1] ”

    I have tried to talk to Joao Ferreira Amaral, author of research and the book that most talks about it . Will try futher.

    However – Linking Turdulli in western Iberia to Mysian in Anatolia, bridging Lusitanian and Mysian, two unclassified IE languages, in a moment that people are looking for origin of extra CHG in southern people, and some linking Anatolia_Chalc with that movement, it really lets your imagination run wild.

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